Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
One in thirty six is 2.77777777777778%.
Testing a Wealth characteristic (WEL) - Comments welcomed!
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
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boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
this isn't for Traveller... something set in modern times, with eldritch horrors using the Traveller rules, whatever that could be, so judging by the original table stopping at 12, that's not a mistake
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Plus one, if your family background is upper middle class.
Limpin Legin
Emperor Mongoose
Just noticed Games Workshop's Wrath & Glory has WEALTH to mean similar to this ^^^, where WEALTH is an abstract currency that could mean either an amount of physical currency or a treasure's value - perhaps implying that haggling with goods could be used to buy things. The emphasis is that a character spends WEALTH points to gain wargear (aka equipment, etc.) and their WEALTH points is linked to their level rather than their class benefits (aka archetype).
I would have thought that depends on the political ideology of the rule system. Economics and Social strata can be different, especially if the game lore is "one that is really not centred on the acquisition of money and gears at all" - ie not a capitalist/materialist society. If you want to give the game a less-capitalist feel, then I wouldn't have linked wealth to social standing.
Similarly:
Serious Debt implies a debt greater that ones monthly/yearly capital? So Serious Debt should be the lowest rank as Destitute implies "positive capital but not quite enough to survive and pay for overheads."
In respect to the above comments, would have chosen something like "Waged" to represent this rank, as that helps de-emphasis any capitalistic/materialistic/utilitarian social strata that the lore might be trying to avoid. "Waged" implies that the only source of capital is from their regular wage packet. But does not imply ranks 2 - 7 are "unwaged", it just means that the rank enjoys better financial support from their wage.
Might have chosen something like "Advanced Assets", or similar (if it were me designing the game). Implies that the operative has other significant financial assets in their name, beyond a regular income.
Thanks rinku! Just noticed that we might be on a similar page with this ^^^ kind of observation.
In games using a Wealth-type stat, I tend to think of it as a credit score, and still track money directly. Wealth stat (credit accounting) is more for things that a normal person in the real world would use a lending institution for - car loans/leases, housing mortgages, business loans, and similar things. Most people don't worry about dealing with a loan officer over a meal (even a really nice, fancy meal), but if they're looking at buying a yacht they (or their people) do. Sure, you can tap into Wealth to replenish your character's cash stash - that would be taking out a personal loan. But mostly people don't bother with dealing with their banker for day-to-day expenses.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Wealth implies plenty of, and in a financial context, assets that have monetary value.
Being the bearer of the Starburst For Extreme Heroism, might mean that you never have to pay for a meal, for the rest of your life.
Being the bearer of the Starburst For Extreme Heroism, might mean that you never have to pay for a meal, for the rest of your life.
You are assuming most people are doing okay, financially speaking. This is no longer true in our world. That is why the table is slanted as it is...
Also, just to reiterate, this is for a setting where players will have just about everything they need provided for them (to one degree or another...), but we need rules to cover the (few) situations where they might need to rely on their own resources. This may come up during one session in every three or four, so we really do not want to be bogged down (this is the whole reason we want to avoid direct currencies).
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
I'm assuming that in the case you mention above it's a straight characteristic check for the player to have access to it (with appropriate DM's based on how unlikely that is to be available to them)? Seems like a good workaround to me, though if it's that rare it seems like a largely wasted stat
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
It would seem to me that those ranks would not be risking life and limb on hunting conspiracy theories. They would be patrons hiring adventurous types OR they are the BBG creating the conspiracies.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
He's also creating the nightstalker conspiracy among criminals.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
He's got a multibillion, I'd say, considering current corporate valuations, possibly trillion buck conglomerate with very advanced technology, that he can tap.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Which is a cover for what is really going on... the first book involves making conspiracies to cover up the truth, along with investigating the real conspiracies...
Every 40k RPG post Dark Heresy 2nd Edition has used some variation on this (Profit, Influence, Infamy and Logistics respectively). I don't mind them but the big issue is how it translates to actually buying stuff (or influencing people).
the basic rule seems reasonable. If I have WEL X I can buy 10 Purchase X 'things' a month without having to roll dice, or break those items down further by multiples of ten for less expensive Purchase X-1 items (so a gun, a laser dot sight and ten magazines, times three, which is nine 'purchases' and a reasonable 'john wick shopping trip' when the players are expecting things to become noisy).
I do like that it's not a directly dice-driven process, though obviously skills like barter and persuade might come in to either artificially boost WEL or reduce Purchase on a one-off basis. Equally it seems not unreasonable that if you have allies and patrons a restricted ability to use their WEL stat instead of your own might be part of the deal.
So, looking at the table, you've got Wealth and you've got Social Standing examples for that wealth level. Does that mean WEL is replacing SOC? That would certainly be a more North American way of handling social class.
Looking at the broader picture, having Wealth as a stat implies that Operators can make Wealth checks, or apply their Wealth modifier to a relevant skill, which is very interesting. Could I call upon my Operators to make Difficult (10+) Streetwise check (1D minutes, WEL) to make a bribe attempt? Or an Average (8+) Carouse check (1D hours, WEL) to be flashing cash at the club as they searched for rumors? This would suggest that wealthier players are also better at spending money successfully, which is a fun implication. I suppose it seems a little strange that the 'Very Poor' Operative and the 'Millionaire' Operative have only a 2 point difference in this regard, but checks like that might be more a case of cash-on-hand and willingness to spend, with any serious expenditures counting as a purchase? The more I circle around the idea, the more I like it. It certainly cuts down on the bookkeeping and leans into a more cinematic style of play -- it doesn't matter how much you bribed the guard for, just that you did, and as someone with notoriously stingy players, it opens up ground for spending without them having to worry about it influencing the bottom line.
If WEL is replacing SOC outright there are some areas it feels a little strange. SOC is used in a lot of social contexts. While I intellectually recognize that it includes social class, saying something like "Make me an Advocate roll, modified by your Wealth stat to argue your case to the court" sounds like I'm asking them to bribe a jury. I suppose the obvious answer would be to inclusion of a CHA stat in this context, which would tie a bow around things nicely.
In regards to the spending money rules, a trouble I had in the various 40k systems (which used similar rules) was twofold. First, because there was a random element to purchases, players felt very insecure when making purchases. They would roll as often as possible and roll for things they didn't need now but might need later because they didn't know if they'd be able to make the roll successfully later. By not having a random element, your system bypasses this nicely, though I worry that players might feel that if they haven't made their free Wealth +1 and Wealth +2 purchases this year they've wasted it. I'm just picturing the Operators buying fancy clothes and a dozen shotguns come Christmas time just to get it out before the equipment budget rollover on January 1st.
The second big trouble I had was that players gunned directly for all the biggest and best equipment that would work for their build. In 40k this was mitigated by the small chance of that requisition roll succeeding, but here it sounds like the party's sole WEL 10 character might be able to equip the whole group with all the fancy stuff, bypassing a lot of the spending for the rest of the team. I suppose in this regard much will depend on the actual costs of things. Can you provide some sample costs?
Further Questions:
- How quickly does Wealth recover once spent?
- How does the system handle sudden raises in wealth, such as stumbling upon a briefcase full of money?
Looking at the broader picture, having Wealth as a stat implies that Operators can make Wealth checks, or apply their Wealth modifier to a relevant skill, which is very interesting. Could I call upon my Operators to make Difficult (10+) Streetwise check (1D minutes, WEL) to make a bribe attempt? Or an Average (8+) Carouse check (1D hours, WEL) to be flashing cash at the club as they searched for rumors? This would suggest that wealthier players are also better at spending money successfully, which is a fun implication. I suppose it seems a little strange that the 'Very Poor' Operative and the 'Millionaire' Operative have only a 2 point difference in this regard, but checks like that might be more a case of cash-on-hand and willingness to spend, with any serious expenditures counting as a purchase? The more I circle around the idea, the more I like it. It certainly cuts down on the bookkeeping and leans into a more cinematic style of play -- it doesn't matter how much you bribed the guard for, just that you did, and as someone with notoriously stingy players, it opens up ground for spending without them having to worry about it influencing the bottom line.
If WEL is replacing SOC outright there are some areas it feels a little strange. SOC is used in a lot of social contexts. While I intellectually recognize that it includes social class, saying something like "Make me an Advocate roll, modified by your Wealth stat to argue your case to the court" sounds like I'm asking them to bribe a jury. I suppose the obvious answer would be to inclusion of a CHA stat in this context, which would tie a bow around things nicely.
In regards to the spending money rules, a trouble I had in the various 40k systems (which used similar rules) was twofold. First, because there was a random element to purchases, players felt very insecure when making purchases. They would roll as often as possible and roll for things they didn't need now but might need later because they didn't know if they'd be able to make the roll successfully later. By not having a random element, your system bypasses this nicely, though I worry that players might feel that if they haven't made their free Wealth +1 and Wealth +2 purchases this year they've wasted it. I'm just picturing the Operators buying fancy clothes and a dozen shotguns come Christmas time just to get it out before the equipment budget rollover on January 1st.
The second big trouble I had was that players gunned directly for all the biggest and best equipment that would work for their build. In 40k this was mitigated by the small chance of that requisition roll succeeding, but here it sounds like the party's sole WEL 10 character might be able to equip the whole group with all the fancy stuff, bypassing a lot of the spending for the rest of the team. I suppose in this regard much will depend on the actual costs of things. Can you provide some sample costs?
Further Questions:
- How quickly does Wealth recover once spent?
- How does the system handle sudden raises in wealth, such as stumbling upon a briefcase full of money?
There really won't be much (any?) 'premium' equipment that the players can buy - they will have fairly free access to pistols and assault rifles (the limiting factor being where they can wander around with them), and the 'good stuff' in this setting will simply not be for sale. That particular issue should solve itself.
As for your questions...
1. How does wealth recover in the real world? Put another way, that kind of loss would be permanent in the context of people working full-time for an organisation whose work is of the utmost importance.
2. A briefcase of money will not raise your wealth, in game or the real world. You might be able to buy something with it that you could not ordinarily afford, but it is not changing your lifestyle for any extended period of time - which is what wealth is really about...
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